Comments on: Never Give Up Hope: Stop the Biofuels Madness http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/25/never-give-up-hope-stop-the-biofuels-madness/ The Blog that Talks about Climate Change Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:49:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Blue Team - Matt http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/25/never-give-up-hope-stop-the-biofuels-madness/#comment-794 Blue Team - Matt Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:50:25 +0000 http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/25/never-give-up-hope-stop-the-biofuels-madness/#comment-794 Hi Nadine, In a nutshell, the COP (coefficient of performance) of wind turbines is very low, around 0.24 (or roughly 20 percent). This is because of the problems converting the movement of the arms into electricity, such as overcoming friction (and energy loss via heat). Also there is a problem with the frequency at which the electricity that is generated: to join seemlessly with the Grid, it has to be a certain frequency, so turbines require quite a lot of technology to convert it. This technology requires engineering, therefore is costly. There is hope, though - google "maglev wind turbine". Until that is ready, we should stop building wind farms, IMHO. Solar again has problems of efficiency, but a key problem at the moment is producing enough silicon of the right grade - there is a standoff between silicon valley (rising demand for computers worldwide) and Germany and Japan who have been demanding so many solar panels in recent years. Sadly, solar is not an answer to producing the energy we need - it's not just homes, it's public transport, street lighting, office blocks, and all those computers. It's just not a sensible answer in the short term. (again, IMHO). The problem with wave power - which, if it could be harnessed, is a pretty good option - is that it costs so much to build a prototype; the sea is so powerful that it can destroy several million pounds of RnD in seconds. All is not lost. I wrote a post before that mentioned CHP & district heating. If the UK government had taken the RAE message and started uilding the things in 2003, we could have halved our energy consumption (and thus CO2 emissions) by now. Hi Nadine,

In a nutshell, the COP (coefficient of performance) of wind turbines is very low, around 0.24 (or roughly 20 percent). This is because of the problems converting the movement of the arms into electricity, such as overcoming friction (and energy loss via heat).

Also there is a problem with the frequency at which the electricity that is generated: to join seemlessly with the Grid, it has to be a certain frequency, so turbines require quite a lot of technology to convert it. This technology requires engineering, therefore is costly.

There is hope, though - google “maglev wind turbine”. Until that is ready, we should stop building wind farms, IMHO.

Solar again has problems of efficiency, but a key problem at the moment is producing enough silicon of the right grade - there is a standoff between silicon valley (rising demand for computers worldwide) and Germany and Japan who have been demanding so many solar panels in recent years. Sadly, solar is not an answer to producing the energy we need - it’s not just homes, it’s public transport, street lighting, office blocks, and all those computers. It’s just not a sensible answer in the short term. (again, IMHO).

The problem with wave power - which, if it could be harnessed, is a pretty good option - is that it costs so much to build a prototype; the sea is so powerful that it can destroy several million pounds of RnD in seconds.

All is not lost. I wrote a post before that mentioned CHP & district heating. If the UK government had taken the RAE message and started uilding the things in 2003, we could have halved our energy consumption (and thus CO2 emissions) by now.

]]> By: nadine sellers http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/25/never-give-up-hope-stop-the-biofuels-madness/#comment-793 nadine sellers Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:10:58 +0000 http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/25/never-give-up-hope-stop-the-biofuels-madness/#comment-793 could someone explain to me why it is difficult to adapt solar/wind technology to the existing grid? is it more costly than building and maintenance of new coal or nuclear plants? more invasive and chemically polluting than agro-business and refineries? more water and fuel wasting than corn production? and finally are waste products and greenhouse gases from building and operating wind/solar farms more dangerous than soot and depleted uranium? the rush to bio-fuels was a convenient corporate leap from the frying pan into the slow fire. by the time we realize we are cooked, so will the planet be. could someone explain to me why it is difficult to adapt solar/wind technology to the existing grid?
is it more costly than building and maintenance of new coal or nuclear plants?
more invasive and chemically polluting than agro-business and refineries?
more water and fuel wasting than corn production?
and finally are waste products and greenhouse gases from building and operating wind/solar farms more dangerous than soot and depleted uranium?
the rush to bio-fuels was a convenient corporate leap from the frying pan into the slow fire. by the time we realize we are cooked, so will the planet be.

]]> By: ClimateHeretic http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/25/never-give-up-hope-stop-the-biofuels-madness/#comment-792 ClimateHeretic Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:04:44 +0000 http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/25/never-give-up-hope-stop-the-biofuels-madness/#comment-792 <i>But many will question why energy experts promoting biofuels in the EU were allowed to go unchallenged so long by the views on biofuels of agriculture specialists or soil scientists.</i> This is the end of the call for delaying bio-fuels news article. Let me tell you how it happened, the same loud know-it-all environmentalists that run around shouting about AGW and promoting bio-fuels. They drowned out any voices of concern and discredited the people making the claims, that is what they do, they have a concensus have you not heard? Why listen to someone who has an objective opinion when you can ram a policy down the world's throat just to put a notch in your climate change bedpost. I just hope people wake up and realize the environmental track-record on interventions is at best dismal, more often than not a worse situation is created. They are not the ones best suited to do anything regarding AGW or really much else, so stop listening to them on policy decisions. But many will question why energy experts promoting biofuels in the EU were allowed to go unchallenged so long by the views on biofuels of agriculture specialists or soil scientists.

This is the end of the call for delaying bio-fuels news article.

Let me tell you how it happened, the same loud know-it-all environmentalists that run around shouting about AGW and promoting bio-fuels. They drowned out any voices of concern and discredited the people making the claims, that is what they do, they have a concensus have you not heard?

Why listen to someone who has an objective opinion when you can ram a policy down the world’s throat just to put a notch in your climate change bedpost.

I just hope people wake up and realize the environmental track-record on interventions is at best dismal, more often than not a worse situation is created. They are not the ones best suited to do anything regarding AGW or really much else, so stop listening to them on policy decisions.

]]>