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	<title>Comments on: Public Transportation &#60;&#62; Creativity &#38; Innovation</title>
	<link>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/</link>
	<description>The Blog that Talks about Climate Change</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 04:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
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		<title>By: TalkClimateChange - &#187; Public Transportation Funding, continued..</title>
		<link>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-785</link>
		<dc:creator>TalkClimateChange - &#187; Public Transportation Funding, continued..</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-785</guid>
		<description>[...] a critical developmental factor as both population and our need for mobility grows. Following some brief discussion on the rights and wrongs of using public money to fund public transport I decided that a follow-on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] a critical developmental factor as both population and our need for mobility grows. Following some brief discussion on the rights and wrongs of using public money to fund public transport I decided that a follow-on [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-760</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-760</guid>
		<description>I was about to write a response on the subject of rail privatisation, but I think it is turning into an entire blog post of its own!  I'll post it in the next few days!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was about to write a response on the subject of rail privatisation, but I think it is turning into an entire blog post of its own!  I&#8217;ll post it in the next few days!!</p>
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		<title>By: ClimateHeretic</title>
		<link>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-759</link>
		<dc:creator>ClimateHeretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-759</guid>
		<description>Experiences shape views for everyone.

I do not agree with the Private/Public railway ownership portion, my Government owned railway was sold to a private operator who then turned it from a loser into a huge profit maker in just 3 years.

There are some major railway players on the world stage, the usual problem is that the Government hates the backlash of selling public assets. 

I was watching your parliment recently and you are having the same arguments we have here about private partnerships for basic services.

Governments hate to lose control, and when public institutions look to foreign investment that RED CARD gets waved as politicians tend to get the willys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Experiences shape views for everyone.</p>
<p>I do not agree with the Private/Public railway ownership portion, my Government owned railway was sold to a private operator who then turned it from a loser into a huge profit maker in just 3 years.</p>
<p>There are some major railway players on the world stage, the usual problem is that the Government hates the backlash of selling public assets. </p>
<p>I was watching your parliment recently and you are having the same arguments we have here about private partnerships for basic services.</p>
<p>Governments hate to lose control, and when public institutions look to foreign investment that RED CARD gets waved as politicians tend to get the willys.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-758</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-758</guid>
		<description>Agree &#038; disagree. Couple of points;

The main thrust of the argument is that before you can even think about taxing motorists out of their cars based on a green agenda you better have feasible alternatives in place - otherwise it would be more fair to admit that you are fleecing them.

Secondly, and for the record, I am absolutely not in favour of nationalised industries. You are right - they end up being run like the government, badly.

However, my experience tempts me to make an exception in the case of rail transport. Why?

Because rail transportation is a fundamental investment in the nation's basic infrastructure. I forget the estimation of lost productivity in the UK whilst people sit in traffic, but it can be measured in the billions of £. So far private investors haven't demonstrated the willingness to stump up significant investment, and private firms have hardly done a stellar job or running the railways.

My proposal to Mr Brown would therefore be that instead of relying on motorists to fund the government that he invest some cash in getting some decent basic infrastructure sorted out and reap the wards from increased productivity, reduced costs in road building and maintenance, reduced dependency on foreign oil imports and all of the other myriad benefits of reducing the UKs gridlocked traffic.

I'm somewhat sceptical if a railway network in the UK can ever be profitable in the mid-term as you suggest. The system has suffered from decades of under investment and as a result is expensive to maintain and operate. It needs the kind of investment that few are willing to make. In financial terms it hardly looks appealing, but in terms of the value provided to the nation by having a solid transport infrastructure it's almost invaluable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree &#038; disagree. Couple of points;</p>
<p>The main thrust of the argument is that before you can even think about taxing motorists out of their cars based on a green agenda you better have feasible alternatives in place - otherwise it would be more fair to admit that you are fleecing them.</p>
<p>Secondly, and for the record, I am absolutely not in favour of nationalised industries. You are right - they end up being run like the government, badly.</p>
<p>However, my experience tempts me to make an exception in the case of rail transport. Why?</p>
<p>Because rail transportation is a fundamental investment in the nation&#8217;s basic infrastructure. I forget the estimation of lost productivity in the UK whilst people sit in traffic, but it can be measured in the billions of £. So far private investors haven&#8217;t demonstrated the willingness to stump up significant investment, and private firms have hardly done a stellar job or running the railways.</p>
<p>My proposal to Mr Brown would therefore be that instead of relying on motorists to fund the government that he invest some cash in getting some decent basic infrastructure sorted out and reap the wards from increased productivity, reduced costs in road building and maintenance, reduced dependency on foreign oil imports and all of the other myriad benefits of reducing the UKs gridlocked traffic.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m somewhat sceptical if a railway network in the UK can ever be profitable in the mid-term as you suggest. The system has suffered from decades of under investment and as a result is expensive to maintain and operate. It needs the kind of investment that few are willing to make. In financial terms it hardly looks appealing, but in terms of the value provided to the nation by having a solid transport infrastructure it&#8217;s almost invaluable.</p>
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		<title>By: ClimateHeretic</title>
		<link>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-757</link>
		<dc:creator>ClimateHeretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.talkclimatechange.com/2008/03/13/public-transportation-creativity-innovation/#comment-757</guid>
		<description>Taxing motorists and gas and roadways to build public transport is not the answer, you remove your tax base!

Sheesh, tax motorists to force them onto public transit that you cannot make money on, that is why you are taxing them in the first place. If you made money you could spend it on updates and services.

Transporation needs to be private investment, with governments contributing land and regional market rights and perhaps some minor investments.

The government cannot make transportation a winner because they run it like they do the government, no accountability or need for profitability. If they over-spend or need more money for fuel or repairs, they ring up the PM "Hey Gordo, send us a few million pounds will you, you can raise the VAT on petrol"

If the system is well run it will make money, leading to more transport and better quality of service. Many a fortune was made in the past on transportation.

Governments are forced to service all areas, give discounts, maintain low volume routes. People expect Government services to be available everywhere because they finance them, even where they make little or no sense at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taxing motorists and gas and roadways to build public transport is not the answer, you remove your tax base!</p>
<p>Sheesh, tax motorists to force them onto public transit that you cannot make money on, that is why you are taxing them in the first place. If you made money you could spend it on updates and services.</p>
<p>Transporation needs to be private investment, with governments contributing land and regional market rights and perhaps some minor investments.</p>
<p>The government cannot make transportation a winner because they run it like they do the government, no accountability or need for profitability. If they over-spend or need more money for fuel or repairs, they ring up the PM &#8220;Hey Gordo, send us a few million pounds will you, you can raise the VAT on petrol&#8221;</p>
<p>If the system is well run it will make money, leading to more transport and better quality of service. Many a fortune was made in the past on transportation.</p>
<p>Governments are forced to service all areas, give discounts, maintain low volume routes. People expect Government services to be available everywhere because they finance them, even where they make little or no sense at all.</p>
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